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Post by princesschichi on Aug 7, 2012 8:49:43 GMT -5
I was looking at the transformation page, and it's really well done. It was perfect in most cases. I like the fact that is balanced with every transformation, but I have some suggestions/concerns with it. I'm all about equality in everything. However, I also believe in trying to create strengths and weaknesses in the transformations for all races. For example, rather then have human transformations as powerful as like changelings or saiyans where they get them at the same time, I think they should get their transformations sooner like namekians. I Whereas with Changelings and Saiyans, it could take them longer, but be moer powerful if that makes sense. This doesn't give humans or other races any weakness that can't be over come. It just means that they have to work harder for their pl to be stronger because Saiyans and Changelings have a natural ability of getting stronger. Their races are basically built for battle. Each race in DBZ has its strengths and weaknesses. For instance, with super saiyans, they tend to drain energy fast so that could be something to take into consideration. The SSJ transformation is one of the most powerful in the show so it should be represented as such, but not in a way that is overpowered. By having them drain energy fast, it gives them a weakness as well. Those were my main concerns with the transformations which focused on saiyans/changelings. I noticed that ssj3 wasn't added yet so I didn't say anything about that. We also should come up with the terms of whether or not half saiyans can indeed go SSJ3. I was reading about a game called Dragonball Heroes where Future Trunks did go ssj3. However, I think that if someone is half saiyan they should be able to choose the root of whether they would rather be like mystic gohan or go onto ssj3. I also feel that half saiyans should have limitations with their blood. Rather them be able to go ssj4 or something, which is way far ahead but it's always good to plan ahead, it's where they reach their limit. It all depends on whether everyone here agrees that half saiyans should be able to go ssj3. The strengths of half saiyans is that they should be able to reach ssj sooner b/c of their human/whatever blood, but then their multiplier be a little lower. Either that or limit their transformations. I think it creates some kind of balance. These were just some ideas I borrowed from other rpgs I was on when I was younger. Humans were always able to transform sooner, but their multipliers were not as high. Even so, like tien, they trained hard and could still compete. Saiyans and changelings always had the highest multipliers, but the saiyans energy drainage was their weak point as well as changelings. Half saiyans were a mixture of both lower level transformation change and lower boost, but some limited their transformations because of their diluted blood. If any of you have any suggestions, or can explain to me what would be better or agree with the system, let me know. I'm all about balancing while being different, yet equal if that makes sense. I didn't talk about the other races either because I have no idea what I would do with them. The main ones I focused on were changelings, humans, nameks, saiyans, and half saiyans. Those seem to be the most popular although androids are usually in that mix as well, but we all know that with androids, their energy is limitless so that in itself is their strength. transformation page if you haven't seen it. whitestardragonball.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=characterinfo&action=display&thread=13Part 2 of my suggestions: It goes with the same as strengths and weakness of transformations. I also looked at the races page. Everyone starts at a different pl which is good. I have some suggestiosn though for some of the races. For instance like tuffles, humans, nameks (weren't added xD), and saibamen should be able to start with more techniques to kinda balance out the power advantage that saiyans/changelings start out with. The advantage of having more techniques should be their main focus. Some suggestions for strengths Humans: Should be able ot have the most techniques (probably around 15) because if you look at the show, humans are the masters of techniques and abilities. Solar flare, kamehameha, after image, tien alone, destructo disc, etc. were all born on Earth. While humans transformations are not as strong as saiyans or other races, this gives them a strength that could help in battle. Nameks: Should be able to regenerate. Tuffles: Same as humans. They were also very technological so that should be included somewhere. Saiyans: Seems about right. They get a boost after every battle, but when they transform their energy should deplete quicker. Not just that, but their transformations should be stronger to give them the saiyan warrior trait. The way they start out stronger is pretty accurate too so it's good. Saiyans should be limited to about 10 techniques because I think for the most part they stick to the same ones. I know Vegeta/Goku do for most of the show although we aren't exactly copying the show. Half Saiyans: A mixture of both human/saiyan, yet have limitations. They start out stronger like was seen on the page. For instance, they could probably learn like 12 techniques, and be limited in their transformations or have them be a little weaker. Androids: limitless energy seems about right. I think if they absorb that should be counted in as well. Any other suggestions would be good. I'm just trying to add some ides to make it better. transformation page. whitestardragonball.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=characterinfo&action=display&thread=12 |
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Post by LEGENDARY~ on Aug 7, 2012 16:32:12 GMT -5
I was looking at the transformation page, and it's really well done. It was perfect in most cases. I like the fact that is balanced with every transformation, but I have some suggestions/concerns with it. I'm all about equality in everything. However, I also believe in trying to create strengths and weaknesses in the transformations for all races. For example, rather then have human transformations as powerful as like changelings or saiyans where they get them at the same time, I think they should get their transformations sooner like namekians. I Whereas with Changelings and Saiyans, it could take them longer, but be moer powerful if that makes sense. This doesn't give humans or other races any weakness that can't be over come. It just means that they have to work harder for their pl to be stronger because Saiyans and Changelings have a natural ability of getting stronger. Their races are basically built for battle. Provided every race balances out at some sort of logically achievable area I'm cool with this. Strengths and weaknesses are cool but balance is probably the more important thing as otherwise people will just flock to the races that have the strongest transformations(i.e. those that have the highest multiplier in the end) Each race in DBZ has its strengths and weaknesses. For instance, with super saiyans, they tend to drain energy fast so that could be something to take into consideration. The SSJ transformation is one of the most powerful in the show so it should be represented as such, but not in a way that is overpowered. By having them drain energy fast, it gives them a weakness as well. In order to truly have something like that work we would need to have some sort of 'energy' system or a post count limitation for certain transformations which doeskin always work out, the best way I could see the post count limit working would be for it to likewise be lessened and eventually removed over time(as the warrior becomes stronger and more attuned to there new form) as for SSJ being one of the most powerful transformations in the show and needing to be represented as such, that i disagree with the super saiyan transformation was powerful because it was the special power of the main characters and on top of that whenever it became outclassed they upgraded it in some way(Ascended super saiyan/ 'ultra' super saiyan/ and eventually SSJ2) we already have such upgrades (save for Ultra which should be taken care of in the form of a technique rather than a legit transformation) Super saiyan itself was not particularly 'special'. Those were my main concerns with the transformations which focused on saiyans/changelings. I noticed that ssj3 wasn't added yet so I didn't say anything about that. We also should come up with the terms of whether or not half saiyans can indeed go SSJ3. I was reading about a game called Dragonball Heroes where Future Trunks did go ssj3. However, I think that if someone is half saiyan they should be able to choose the root of whether they would rather be like mystic gohan or go onto ssj3. I also feel that half saiyans should have limitations with their blood. Rather them be able to go ssj4 or something, which is way far ahead but it's always good to plan ahead, it's where they reach their limit. It all depends on whether everyone here agrees that half saiyans should be able to go ssj3. Dragon Ball Heroes isnt exactly the ebst place for source material, but I highly disagree with the idea of random half saiyans taking a 'mystic' path, it makes no sense because that 'form' was not something Gohan attained through training or through his own means, it was given through the Old Kai unlocking ALL of his potential permanently. He was effectively a permanent SSJ3 The strengths of half saiyans is that they should be able to reach ssj sooner b/c of their human/whatever blood, but then their multiplier be a little lower. Either that or limit their transformations. I think it creates some kind of balance. These were just some ideas I borrowed from other rpgs I was on when I was younger. Humans were always able to transform sooner, but their multipliers were not as high. Even so, like tien, they trained hard and could still compete. Saiyans and changelings always had the highest multipliers, but the saiyans energy drainage was their weak point as well as changelings. Half saiyans were a mixture of both lower level transformation change and lower boost, but some limited their transformations because of their diluted blood. Same as I said before, so long as everything does eventually balance out at some logical point(say perhaps SSJ2 tier, and then perhaps SSJ3 tier if we do add that) then i'm cool with it. If any of you have any suggestions, or can explain to me what would be better or agree with the system, let me know. I'm all about balancing while being different, yet equal if that makes sense. I didn't talk about the other races either because I have no idea what I would do with them. The main ones I focused on were changelings, humans, nameks, saiyans, and half saiyans. Those seem to be the most popular although androids are usually in that mix as well, but we all know that with androids, their energy is limitless so that in itself is their strength. transformation page if you haven't seen it. Limitless energy never actually 'does' anything special save for allow the RPer to not rp there character being tired from using a lot of attacks, (normal) androids still need transformations, I'd suggest for the moment having them use the same setup we have for tuffles. Part 2 of my suggestions: It goes with the same as strengths and weakness of transformations. I also looked at the races page. Everyone starts at a different pl which is good. I have some suggestiosn though for some of the races. For instance like tuffles, humans, nameks (weren't added xD), and saibamen should be able to start with more techniques to kinda balance out the power advantage that saiyans/changelings start out with. The advantage of having more techniques should be their main focus. Some suggestions for strengths Humans: Should be able ot have the most techniques (probably around 15) because if you look at the show, humans are the masters of techniques and abilities. Solar flare, kamehameha, after image, tien alone, destructo disc, etc. were all born on Earth. While humans transformations are not as strong as saiyans or other races, this gives them a strength that could help in battle. I have to disagree on the concept of humans being 'masters of techniques' yes we see a vast majority of human techniques but then you have to remember where 90% of the show takes place... Earth.. the humans homeworld. We see a great number of techniques employed by the villians that are not earth-born so I dont think we should be putting humans on quite that high of a pedestal in that regard. Nameks: Should be able to regenerate. wholeheartedly agreed Tuffles: Same as humans. They were also very technological so that should be included somewhere. Rathre than giving them a great number of 'legit' technique slots perhaps we could give them a large number of 'technology' slots sort of techniques that are physical objects that can be stolen or something or just perhaps cant all be used at once(you can equip say four of them, but maybe each transformation allows you to use more?) I''d personally love to design the Tuffle race myself, seems like a lot of room for quirky design. Saiyans: Seems about right. They get a boost after every battle, but when they transform their energy should deplete quicker. Not just that, but their transformations should be stronger to give them the saiyan warrior trait. The way they start out stronger is pretty accurate too so it's good. Saiyans should be limited to about 10 techniques because I think for the most part they stick to the same ones. I know Vegeta/Goku do for most of the show although we aren't exactly copying the show. I absolutely disagree with the concept of saiyans being limited on techniques, it makes 0 sense, not a single canon saiyan 'sticks with the same techniques' as you mentioned, Goku alone learned practically every technique he came across and then developed some of his own, and was even shown to be a natural at learning new techniques though weather that could be a personality quirk or a racial one is debatable. Half Saiyans: A mixture of both human/saiyan, yet have limitations. They start out stronger like was seen on the page. For instance, they could probably learn like 12 techniques, and be limited in their transformations or have them be a little weaker. Androids: limitless energy seems about right. I think if they absorb that should be counted in as well. already voiced my opinion on them Any other suggestions would be good. I'm just trying to add some ides to make it better. transformation page. whitestardragonball.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=characterinfo&action=display&thread=12[/quote] |
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Post by princesschichi on Aug 7, 2012 17:24:46 GMT -5
I'm glad you responded to my suggestions. However, my main concern is balancing out everything so that it's different, yet equal. If everything is the same down the line, it just takes out the fun imo. The main limit of techniques, that i was told, was 10 for every race so yes there is already a limit. I mean they can always be expanded. However, because saiyans start at such a high level already, I think they should be limited to a certain amount. Then, when they transform, they have higher boosts. It just makes sense to me. It's also why I'm saying other races, though starting a weaker pl, should be able to have more techniques.
Also, it's not saying that humans are masters of techniques, but what else would you give them? There really isn't any other advantage that they have, according to show, besides the fact that they were somewhat more intelligent. As it stands now, if you start as a human, your only benefits are they can fuse techniques in battle. I'm not exactly sure I have ever seen that in dbz. I'm not saying it's not cool, but it is odd to me. Humans not only start out as one of the weakest on the forum, but have no other traits other then what I just told you.
I'm sorry if I am rambling about humans because it's what im rping as at the moment. I would focus on other races, but I am using the humans as an example.
Right now as it stands some races are more popular, and there is nothing you can do about that. Most of the forum is either saiyan, half saiyan, or changeling or one of those combinations. My ideas were just suggestions to highlight strengths of each race without weakening either to possibly have others attracted to something other than saiyan/changeling/half.
I agree with the idea of humans starting at a lower pl because it makes sense, but I also feel that having humans transformations equal to a saiyan's just takes out the wow factor. I see variety being the key here. n the show or manga, yes saiyan's were the warrior race. It's why I feel that right now they are good. However, other races have to highlight their particular strengths to attract others to them or else we will have a forum with saiyans/half saiyans.
The main reason why particular races were popular in dbz is because they played a specific role. Some characters were more on the back front although it can be argued that Goku was always the main focus of the show. I feel like if you have all ego, main characters and not enough supporting ones, it can turn pretty ugly.
All and all, I just want to say that we should make a system like I was mentioning. It doesn't have to be my idea. I was just throwing some ideas out there for people to use. If you have anything to bring, go right ahead. I'm sure that there are people on this forum who know more about dbz than I do.
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Post by Eleven on Aug 21, 2012 14:23:22 GMT -5
I'm all for both ideas brought up here (Both differentiating Transformations, and Races in general).
Balance is absolutely key on any RPing forum, but "Diversity" is equally important; having characters running around that are too similar takes away from the enjoyment that comes from interaction between them.
As far as transformations are concerned at the moment, an example would be Human's "Higher Tension", and Namekian's "Giant Form"; both have equal requirements and equal powerlevel thing.
Personally, I think an ideal system would focus on both character balance -and- character diversity, both hand in hand. Having a variety of different races/transformations that are each distinct from each other would be a benefit to the site.
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Post by G O K U on Aug 21, 2012 15:03:47 GMT -5
The only problem there is with that is Changeling's are natural transformers, they would get their transformations sooner than Namekian's. Them being natural transformer's is apart of their racial traits. As for everything else, I find it understandable.
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Post by Eleven on Aug 21, 2012 16:24:19 GMT -5
Ugh, my above post failed XD
What I meant to say in the comparison above was that as it is now, the Higher Tension and Giant Form are pretty much the same, even though they are different kinds of transformations. Apparently, fate had somehow prevented me from finishing my comment >.>
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Post by Android 7Q "Jaion" on Aug 21, 2012 16:45:52 GMT -5
I honestly like the way Transformations work now. Every transformation is basically the same just visually and effectively different. I think that balance is perfect and creates an even more fair environment for fighting.
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REN
Junior Member
Lurker
Posts: 58
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Post by REN on Sept 17, 2012 0:29:55 GMT -5
I personally think that the races are too balanced. I quite dislike it. Of course, I'm a lurker, so my opinion matters little. Instead, I'll just throw in some ideas. Some races that have Permanent Transformations, while others could Temporary. Now this is the interesting part, because some of the temporary transformations could also have have permanent, that means they have an extra edge so some could have lower multiplier temporary. This adds diversity, though it somewhat makes it unstable. Also here is another interesting detail. In some RP, they have a racial forum, and Racial Thread. In the thread, it list racial perks and cons, as well as their transformations racial abilities, starting techniques, and racial techniques.
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Post by mightyoxking on Sept 17, 2012 8:16:41 GMT -5
I personally think that the races are too balanced. I quite dislike it. Of course, I'm a lurker, so my opinion matters little. Instead, I'll just throw in some ideas. Some races that have Permanent Transformations, while others could Temporary. Now this is the interesting part, because some of the temporary transformations could also have have permanent, that means they have an extra edge so some could have lower multiplier temporary. This adds diversity, though it somewhat makes it unstable. Also here is another interesting detail. In some RP, they have a racial forum, and Racial Thread. In the thread, it list racial perks and cons, as well as their transformations racial abilities, starting techniques, and racial techniques. I actually like the idea of permanent transformations or permanent boosts. I remember the "unlock potential" being like a permanent boost anyway. It would suit humans and nameks well in those cases. When I think of transformation, I think of the individual becoming different in some cases and that isn't the case with unlock potential. As for techniques being for specific races, I think that could work too. I think we need more opinions on it though to see what others think. I really like those ideas though. ;D |
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REN
Junior Member
Lurker
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Post by REN on Sept 17, 2012 22:46:14 GMT -5
Also the thing about about transformation paths, as someone I don't remembered mentioned, I do think it's possible. We can say that it's a secret quest that some people unlock, such as Gohan. If Gohan doesn't reach the said parameters, he wouldn't be able to reach, say, Mystic form, allowing others to be able to reach for it. Other words, rare transformations that only limited, meaning a couple or one person, can achieve. Also, who said transformation have to be beneficial? There could be some horrible transformations. Like Mystic form prevents saiyan transformations, there could be some that don't even have any Pl benefits. All about the creativity I guess.
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Post by princesschichi on Sept 18, 2012 22:50:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I was talking about limiting transformations like Super Saiyan and Mystic, but see that is kind of hard to do. I don't feel that there should be a lot of super saiyans running around because of the legendary status the transformation has. I would like to have something like that, but I know most people who join as saiyans want to turn super saiyan. It is hard to restrict.
AS for mystic form, I think it should be limited to certain characters. I don't think it should be just for Gohan. I'm not sure how we could decide who gets it or who doesn't.
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REN
Junior Member
Lurker
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Post by REN on Sept 19, 2012 0:13:53 GMT -5
I personally think there should be a duration for transformations. Example, SSJ gets 10 post. That way, it makes this game more strategic. Of course, with the new battle system I could see that the multiplier is also going to change. Most likely be changed to something like X transformation add double the base Pl to current PL. Also the status of Legendary SSJ is what I meant for one person only. It gives insane amount of power, thus only one person can unlock it. And Brolly isn't reserved for it. Makes things more interesting this way. Like play your cards right, and you can unlock something sweet. Mystic form same thing. Only a handful of people can get it, and Gohan isn't guaranteed it.
Going back to limitations of transformations, I think it would be interesting if you can train your transformation. Like the more you train it, the longer it can go, and when you hit a certain number, it becomes unlimited. Also the more you train one thing, the less likely you'll be able to achieve another transformation, or the Pl requirement goes up. And with the right training on certain transformations, makes you eligible for Secret Transformations. Of course this just complicates the system right?
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Post by Frigid on Sept 19, 2012 19:41:03 GMT -5
We already have a racial traits page somewhere, and attacks/moves have yet to be worked on properly. But yes, in future there are plans for putting requirements on them with race, as well as more precise race advantages/disadvantages.
The ideas will be considered as we continue to add/work on the trans/site things, but for the time being they will be generically balanced so people can use them. Now a quick list of those ideas that we'll work on later:
- Permanent Trans (like Unlock Potential): I guess should be gained through quests or something, or a race specific. These will give a set number of PL (eg. 5,000) once they reach the requirements.
- Special Trans/Power Ups: Mystic/Majin, these I believe should be earned like in canon. So for example with Mystic, someone has to break the Z Sword first, and that does not have to be Gohan. As for LSSJ, that was specifically part of Broly's character so he gets to keep that.
- Transformation Duration: Either a post limit and/or a ki drain per post to keep it.
- Training Transformations: Extending trans duration, making it stronger like with Ascended/Ultra/Mastered SSJ
Once those ideas are worked out and balanced enough they will be added with the next update.
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Post by mightyoxking on Sept 19, 2012 21:44:18 GMT -5
We already have a racial traits page somewhere, and attacks/moves have yet to be worked on properly. But yes, in future there are plans for putting requirements on them with race, as well as more precise race advantages/disadvantages. The ideas will be considered as we continue to add/work on the trans/site things, but for the time being they will be generically balanced so people can use them. Now a quick list of those ideas that we'll work on later: - Permanent Trans (like Unlock Potential): I guess should be gained through quests or something, or a race specific. These will give a set number of PL (eg. 5,000) once they reach the requirements. - Special Trans/Power Ups: Mystic/Majin, these I believe should be earned like in canon. So for example with Mystic, someone has to break the Z Sword first, and that does not have to be Gohan. As for LSSJ, that was specifically part of Broly's character so he gets to keep that. - Transformation Duration: Either a post limit and/or a ki drain per post to keep it. - Training Transformations: Extending trans duration, making it stronger like with Ascended/Ultra/Mastered SSJ Once those ideas are worked out and balanced enough they will be added with the next update. Yeah, I think for the most part you got some ideas down for the transformations. The reason why I brought it up is because it is better to tackle these situations earlier rather than later. I'd like to see how it turns out as more members decide to join. |
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